DEA & FDA to stop internet pharmacies

[Star]

ARticle in NY Times


http://www.nytimes.com/2003/10/18/technology/18DRUG.html

[ChesterCoperpot]

Can you paste the article? I dont have a login to read it.. Thanks

[DEWIE42]

Hubba , Hubba off topic but love your avatar Chester smileys/smiley4.gif

[iggy]

It's over :(

Two Agencies to Fight Online Narcotics Sales
By GARDINER HARRIS

Published: October 18, 2003


Two federal agencies, the Food and Drug Administration and the Drug Enforcement Administration, have formed a special task force to crack down on the growing tide of illicit sales of narcotics on the Internet.

And for the first time, regulators are hinting that those who order the drugs may face prosecution. "It's illegal to import narcotics," Mark B. McClellan, the F.D.A. commissioner, said in an interview. "We do have steps in place to intercept such products and to take further legal action."

The task force, called Operation Gray Lord, will include officials from the Justice Department, some local law enforcement agencies and perhaps even top law enforcement officers from Canada because much of the trade originates there. Task force members intend to pursue the purveyors of prescription narcotics aggressively, but they acknowledge the difficulty of the task.

Many of the sites are based in countries where the sales are legal, and officials have few hopes that they will be able to intercept every package sent through the mail. Many of the packages bear fake customs certifications, making them especially difficult to track.

"Like anyone else, I'm inundated with spam for hydrocodone, Valium and Ambien," said Elizabeth Willis, chief of the drug operation section of the D.E.A.'s office of diversion control. But determining who is sending the e-mail takes a lot of work, Ms. Willis said. "Some are registered in Europe, but the drugs are sent from Africa," she said.

"This problem will probably grow as people see an opportunity to make money," Ms. Willis added.

The task force may close Internet pharmacies in the United States that have operated in a legal gray area for years by hiring physicians who write prescriptions based solely on the results of an e-mail questionnaire.

"If a prescription is written by a doctor based solely on information from an online questionnaire, it's not valid, so the distribution is illegal," Ms. Willis said.

The government's crackdown comes as Congress debates legislation that would legalize the reimportation of prescription medicine from Canada and Europe as a means of giving Americans access to lower-priced pills. Drug prices in the United States are often two to three times those found in Canada and southern Europe. Several Midwestern governors have recently announced their support for reimportation.

The drug industry is fiercely opposed to reimportation, saying it is dangerous and undercuts its ability to finance research. F.D.A. officials have warned consumers against ordering drugs from Canada and elsewhere, saying many may be counterfeit.

In the case of prescription narcotics, however, both federal agencies say they worry that the drugs sold are actually what they claim to be - powerful opiates that can cause dangerous addictions. F.D.A. officials say that the growth in reimportation has made limiting the trade in narcotics more difficult.

"Different kinds of drug imports carry different risks," Dr. McClellan said. "As they all come in unidentified packaging, it's difficult to separate one from the other."

Those who support reimportation legislation have accused the F.D.A. in recent weeks of playing politics each time the agency announces enforcement actions against reimportation. But Dr. McClellan said that "no one should argue that uncontrolled access to controlled substances is a good idea."

"The political concerns are not the motivation," he said. "The safety and integrity of the drug supply of the United States is."

Abuse of prescription painkillers is soaring. In 2002, 22 percent of those 18 to 25 abused prescription pain pills, up from 7 percent in 1992, according to government surveys. A survey of emergency room visits found that painkiller abuse nearl

[kaylowe]

I don't think we need to panic. This article specifically refers to importing NARCOTICS from out of the US. That would be ordering valium and hydrocodone from Mexico, Thailand, etc. A lot of that is done. Our legit online pharmacies have nothing in common with these operations.





Kay

[Star]

Read carefully, this is us:


The task force may close Internet pharmacies in the United States that have operated in a legal gray area for years by hiring physicians who write prescriptions based solely on the results of an e-mail questionnaire.

"If a prescription is written by a doctor based solely on information from an online questionnaire, it's not valid, so the distribution is illegal," Ms. Willis said.

[phalaris]

I think they are planning to kill everything online non-narcotics like Viagra included.


"Like anyone else, I'm inundated with spam for hydrocodone, Valium and Ambien,"


Got to agree with this. A few OPstrying to make quick buck by using their army of spammers from specialham.com are mostly to blame for quick demise of this good opportunity.

[NewbiusMaximus]

I'm starting to get a little paranoid myself. I have noticed a HUGE increase in impressions this last week, yet sales have been kind of slow. My CTR has sucked as well.


Makes me wonder if there's some serious investigation or research going on by FDA or DEA...or maybe I'mjustafraid the sky is falling? smileys/smiley5.gif

[stevie]

""Bo Dietl, a private investigator hired by the pharmaceutical industry, recently released a report saying his team found 1,400 Web sites that sell prescription medicines, and more than 350 of them do not require prescriptions. The report has received widespread circulation on Capitol Hill."


I'd love to see a copy of that report!


Bo Dietl again... the guys got a name like a country western star or Nascar driver. Can anyone on Capitol Hill take him seriously??

[stevie]

http://www.beaudietl.com/bd_news_10-03.htm

[kaylowe]

Please note that the article targeted foreign pharmacies selling NARCOTICS! I believe that they are cracking down on the Mexican, Thai and other pharmacies that ship volumes of hydrocodone, valium, perhaps oxycontin, xanax, etc. I could be wrong, but I think that is what the article is referring to.


Kay

[iggy]

The task force may close Internet pharmacies in the United States that have operated in a legal gray area for years by hiring physicians who write prescriptions based solely on the results of an e-mail questionnaire.

"If a prescription is written by a doctor based solely on information from an online questionnaire, it's not valid, so the distribution is illegal," Ms. Willis said.

[RxSponsor.com]

"If a prescription is written by a doctor based solely on information from an online questionnaire, it's not valid, so the distribution is illegal," Ms. Willis said.


This is the quote that is most troublesome for me too. I wish some of the OP would have an attorney respond to this.


We need some clarity here...

[Shark Attack]

the sooner the better ...

[MedsDirect]

Consulting legal now, updates to follow..

[Shark Attack]

Good - would be interested to know if Elizabeth Willis, chief of the drug operation section of the D.E.A.'s office of diversion control is correct in saying "If a prescription is written by a doctor based solely on information from an online questionnaire, it's not valid, so the distribution is illegal". Can she really come out and say this... surely not ?

[Affiliate]

Here is another interesting article:


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A50567-2003Oct19.html (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A50567-2003Oct19.html)

[rxmary]

love those xanax ads at the bottom of the article LOL

[iggy]

This is worse than expected.

It pisses me off that these greedy OP's had to start with xanax, hydro, etc...

Also, that they payed affiliates to spam the #%#$@ out of everyone's inbox with this.

Now, it looks like we aren't going to get that "one more year" that we all prayed for.

Oh and BTW, don't expect to hear anything from any of the OP's on this except possibly a little BS

[Shark Attack]

We should a sweepstake as to when it will all end.


Think I am suffering from Paranoid Monday Syndrome.


I bid 6 months !

[Affiliate]

The article I posted just made it onto the frontpage of yahoo in the news section.

[iggy]

<<We should a sweepstake as to when it will all end. >>

This Wednesday?

That article points out that the orders start at the affiliate sites which sucks even worse for us. I was at least hoping that the OP's would take the heat rather than the marketers...

Anyone need some Pharm sites that do well in the search engines?

[MWS_Brian]

Hey all, I will answer this in some detail, but cannot give 100% of what you want. You will se why soon.


The Op ( such as us) who sell xanax, etc did NOT make this business come under scrutiny. Lifeline pahrmacy raid last week ? Not our pharmacy, and was for diet pills


We have lobbyists ( one of the few who spend the bucks on that by the way) who let us know what the boards are thinking.


The two main boards are pharmacy and medicine (doctors)


Currnetly, the ops who will go down are the ones who uses docs writing illegal prescriptions.


In answer the the quote from the DEA stating the order form technique is illegal, sort of misleading.


Number 1, Pharmacies and Docotors prescribe and operate under the license they get from the STATE.


So if today I florida doctor ( as we all have been reading about) were to wrie a script for phentermine or even Viagra, it would be illegal. The pharmacy thet filled would also be breaking a law, as well as the consumer, as well as you the web site owner.


So, You see what she was saying ?


They are going to investigate us all , and see hwo does things correctly.


I know of some OPs who are doing this. BUt, many ot intentionally


Just have not spent the time and money to VERIFY every doctor and lawyer.


How would you feel to find out adocotor for your OP had 2 or the medical malpractice suite against them, and is filling scripts for you ? Or if your pahrmacy filling was run by a cocaine abuser.


Sadly, this negatoive press is what the problem is.


If you feel because we sell xanax or phemtermine, and that is the problem, you are way wrong.


Notice the latest pharmacy and doctor problems. None mention anything about the type of drug being the problem, but the main issue, of the script being illegal.


Again state laws.


Same with the pharmacy


Now, I am not about to list all legal states for doctors and pahrmacies.


Or even the legal IRs issues of offshore merchant accounts.


But I am confident to answer these and other legeal concerns, and I ask for the OP in this forum to post that they have verifired their network as we have.


I all also challenge them to put tohether the type of paperwork we offer every affilaite to make sure you all are covered. Check your contract with your OP. Dont have any ? Say you are juat "a marketing company, so I am fine"


Really, what contract do you have ? Is your companybooks up to date ?


Not trying to scare anyone, but drugs is a serious business, amke sure you know who you deal with and what they do. Ask them their lawyers and if You can verify what they have in place.


I would

[MWS_Brian]

MWSLLC.COM NOTE:


We do see changes in this business coming up. In fact our attoneys and lobbyists have told us exactly what the different agencies will want, and being that we know the way they are going, we will still be around for the next phase of this business.


So be prepared for for guys giving us the black eye with the illegal marketing, etc to go away and leave the goos gusy alone ( such as us)


But in case you hear of a raid on a OP, dont panic !! Most of the time they look for info only ( life line only lost dea license and can get it back).


I am available for conversations always.


If anyone uses IRC, I woule be mor ethen happy to host a live chat on this issue tonite, unless admin has anpther suggestion ?


I would also invite any ohter OP wiht his/her comments to co host this with me.

[Shark Attack]

Thanks for taking the time to write this reply Brian. My company deals with as many as 20 different OPs and it is about time I found out a little more about the people I work with. Thanks again

[Affiliate]

Brian, Thanks for posting!


I think it's timeto throw in the cards. The money is great but nothing is worth the hassle of the DEA knocking on your door. F that!

[Shark Attack]

I reckon we cam all weather storm if we get ourselves briefed on everything that is happening

[Shark Attack]

Does anyone else get this page when they post a reply:


http://rxaffiliate.web104.discountasp.net/post_message.asp?PN=

[smokey]

I do. It looks like the new web host doesn't support what ever mail object this forum is configured to use..

[MWS_Brian]

i get a 500 server error, but it went up anyway

[Affiliate]

Please stay on topic. This is important! Thank you!

[Shark Attack]

I couldn't agree more !

[chicago]

I basically read the yahoo news articles featured on the headlines once an hour just as a habit and this morning was suprised by the dea/fda article. I have been cracking jokes with my gf all morning while she was getting ready for work about the dea/fda coming to raid my place.


I think we will all be ok for awhile. Normally something like this would make me paranoid but as they stated, it's too overwhelming to stop overnight.


If you think about all of the money involved... drug companies and advertising.... there is no way this will all go down without a major fight.

[smokey]

Brian you would get the same error we are getting but you need to figure your browser to show friendly HTTP error messages in tools/internet options/advanced

[iggy]

<<If you think about all of the money involved... drug companies and advertising.... there is no way this will all go down without a major fight.>>

Yah, but if the dea comes to you, are you willing to fight?

I'm out, for real. Only problem is what to do with all the sites plastered all over Google.

How many here are going to "keep on keeping on", and how many are closing shop?

i always felt, until very recently, that affiliates were safe, especially, if we direct the traffic to other sites. Not much differrent than Google showing OP ads. But now....I feel at risk, legally, and I just don't need it.

[redex]

People, stop being so paranoid. These cases are about narcotics and importing narcotics non FDA drugs. Read the articles carefully and quit trying to apply every word to your situation. If you market an OP that sells xanax, you most likely will wind up in court with them., Think not. Think again.


Why can'tMWS Brian provide a solid answer to why hydro can't be shipped the same day.Why do affiliates have to regulate their hydro sales? Deal in these controlled drugs and yes you will be out of business and maybe out some money as well. And quite possibly in court with the OP if someone died. Civil suits are expensive.


On the other hand, if you are selling/promoting the very same drugs that were available before phentermine and all the rest came about, you will be selling for a long time. You remember, when the only diet med was Xenical! Hasn't been that long ago for you old timers. Viagra, herps, antidepressants, some mild muscle relaxers and pain meds, fem meds. Nothing too serious, but still plenty of money to be made.


The DEA and FDA will not go after an OP selling Pfizer viagra but it will scrutinize generic viagra. Use a little common sense in which OPs you deal with and you will be here at this forum same time next year talking about all the illegal OPs that got shut down. Prolly won;t be any phent orders next year either.

[RxSponsor.com]

From The Yahoo article:


"Rogue medical merchants set up Internet pharmacies that serve as pipelines for narcotics, selling to drug abusers and others who never see doctors in person or undergo tests. The sellers move tens of millions of doses of hydrocodone, Xanax, Valium, Ritalin (news (http://us.rd.yahoo.com/DailyNews/manual/*http://search.news.yahoo.com/search/news?p=%22Ritalin%22&c=&n=20&yn=c&c=news&cs=nw) - web sites (http://us.rd.yahoo.com/DailyNews/manual/*http://search.yahoo.com/bin/search?cs=nw&p=Ritalin)), OxyContin and other controlled substances. Scores of customers have become addicted, overdosed or died."


It is clear to me that because I see the same "offending" drugs listed over and over that the feds do place more emphasis on these drugs which means something.


Just an observation worth noting..


Another Article


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A50567-2003Oct19_2.htmlEdited by: RxSponsor.com

[chicago]

yeah, we should be ok, I would stay away from the hydro and if you really want to be safe, stay away from the diet meds.

[smokey]

if you stay away from the diet meds you are loosing alot of sales

[iggy]

<<These cases are about narcotics and importing narcotics non FDA drugs. >>

Where do they say anything about what type of prescriptions below?

"If a prescription is written by a doctor based solely on information from an online questionnaire, it's not valid, so the distribution is illegal".

Sounds pretty cut and dry to me.

Also, if one of the OP's that you promote goes down, think the dea might take the records of the affiliates they paid?

[Shark Attack]

If Google are happy to show drug related Adwords, I'm happy to use their service. The day the likes of Google stop promoting affiliate sites will be the day I might have to change.


Wise words Redex.


Also losing Phentermine will be a bummer !

[Affiliate]

The bottom line is... are you willing to take the risk? I'm not.

[chicago]

i'm a risk taker, and honestly I will be in this biz till the very end.

[SamSung]

Chicago-


I'm pleased to see your post. I 2 will be here till the bitter end. But, if they shut us down tomorrow, hopefully without any fines / penalties / or jail time, I'm prepared to move on and continue with the next affiliate venture. It's been good knowing all you people and let's hope we have a few more months left.

[smokey]

Technology is here if they shut us down there will be an evolution of the OP business and it will morph to fall into the regulations that they set.

[Typhoon-]

<<These cases are about narcotics and importing narcotics non FDA drugs. >>

Where do they say anything about what type of prescriptions below?

"If a prescription is written by a doctor based solely on information from an online questionnaire, it's not valid, so the distribution is illegal".

Sounds pretty cut and dry to me.

Also, if one of the OP's that you promote goes down, think the dea might take the records of the affiliates they paid?


And what then, if the dea takes the records. I guess the officials are clearly shutting 1 eye instead of shutting them both, because still there is demand for the medications (why do the customers buy those??).


I think staying far away from all the controlled meds which they name clearly in every article: Hydrocodone, Xanax, Valium, Ritalin and OxyContin, will sure benefit the market. Just my 2 cents.

[Shark Attack]

For me this comes down to greed and opportunity. I will be there until the end. Another year in its current state will make a massive financial difference

[artie]

http://pubadvocate.nyc.gov/html/reports/internet_drugs.html

[artie]

http://pubadvocate.nyc.gov/html/reports/internet_drugs.html


smileys/smiley1.gif

[Typhoon-]

http://pubadvocate.nyc.gov/html/reports/internet_drugs.html











Here we go again.. Taken from that url:



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The Office of the Public Advocate conducted a search of the worldwide web during the period of December 13, 2002 to March 12, 2003. Even though cyber pharmacies offer numerous varieties of drugs, the main focus of this report was to determine access to prescription pharmaceuticals that were known to have addictive potential.
<UL>
<LI>According to the National Institute on Drug Abuse, the following prescription drugs are known to be commonly abused and potentially addictive:
<LI>Opioid Pain Killers - Codeine, Darvon, Vicodin, Demerol;
<LI>Central Nervous System Depressants - Valium, Xanax, Halcion;
<LI>Stimulants- Ritalin, Dexedrine. [3] (http://pubadvocate.nyc.gov/html/reports/internet_drugs.html#_ftn3)</LI>[/list]


According to the Controlled Substances Act, they are also controlled substances.


Using multiple search engines like Google, Yahoo, Excite, Alta Vista, Hotbot and Lycos, we were able to identify those websites that offered potentially addictive drugs to consumers.


The information we derived from our search has limitations in that we did not attempt to purchase pharmaceuticals from all of the sites. Therefore, we cannot definitively state that all sites will actually deliver the goods as promised.

[RxSponsor.com]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A50567-2003Oct19_2.html (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A50567-2003Oct19_2.html)

[stevie]

The problem with these newest news articles is PR. We've now got the scarlet letter branded on us.... ALL OF US. . . it will pan out but it's getting worse and their is NO ONE fighting to say we don't deserve the scarlet letter . . .so it'll keep getting driven into the minds of the massess that OP is bad. I dont care if you got lobbyists and advisors hoooked with the state pharmacy boards that doesnt mean sh*t to Joe Q Public or the BigBuck the DEA agent or the greedy prick lawyer who'll gladly throw you in the mix of defendants in a lawsuit.


ALL OP programs are all falling into the same category in the publics eye and in the media. We're all dispensing drugs illegally in their minds simply because we're doing it online. We need to get an Op who has some balls to speak up about it in the media. There's no other way . BUT you know what NO Op in their right mind would do that because they'd have the feds up their ass. I'm honestly suprised that MWS posted here about this at all. Did you talk to your lawyers and tell them you were posting on a public forum? just curious


If anyone else besides Affiliate wants to bail out you might try just sending your traffic to someone else... I've been using these guys since they started. http://www.domainsponsor.com/tracker/ref.php?ref_id=42&amp;s=0 (http://www.domainsponsor.com/tracker/ref.php?ref_id=42&amp;s=0)


I'm outta here as soon as I can. call me paranoid but I don't care to be around when the sh*t does hit the fan. I'll be back after the storm is passed.


Oh yeah and I wonder how much traffic the sites that are listed in the WashingtonPost article get as a result of their URL blasted on every page... would be interesting to know huh

[artie]

Online doctors, pharmacists are tough to snare


By Lisa Richardson and Charles Ornstein
Los Angeles Times



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LOS ANGELES - Attempts to stop U.S. doctors and pharmacies from issuing prescriptions online without physical examinations often have amounted to tortuous, low-speed chases through cyberspace after elusive targets.


Now, California regulators are stepping up their efforts. Last month they revoked the license of a cyberdoctor accused of issuing 11,000 illicit prescriptions, and last week they levied $48 million in fines against six out-of-state prescribers.


But California, along with other states, faces daunting obstacles in the shadowy world of online prescribing. Not the least among them are the growing popularity of no-fuss prescriptions, the difficulty of prosecuting doctors across state lines, the limited resources of state medical and pharmacy boards, and spotty or antiquated state regulations.


Even though the national Federation of State Medical Boards adamantly opposes online prescribing without proper examination, only 22 individual boards in the United States have specifically prohibited it. A few states have passed legislation against online prescribing or have tried to prosecute doctors, with mixed success, under existing consumer-protection or criminal laws.


One barrier is the apparent belief among some doctors that there is nothing wrong with writing a prescription without actually seeing the patient.


"I did not do anything wrong in treating these patients,"

[RxSponsor.com]

Key Point:


"Doctors, who collect a consultation fee for each patient, may or may not be in the same state where the patient lives. That's a problem because the practice of medicine is not regulated nationally; it is regulated by individual states."


This is what Brian from MWSwas saying.


It looks like there will have to be a national law to stop this industry. If your OP is adhearing to specific state laws regarding this issue, what legal grounds is there for the goverment to shut them down?





Edited by: RxSponsor.com

[aewgolf]

Deep throat always said follow the money! It is obvikous that we are getting into the brick and mortar pharmacy business pocket! They havea very strong presence in DC (NARD &amp; NACDS). They can put alot of pressure on the hill.


The easiest way to get rid of us &amp; the OP is to go after the MD. The easiest guy to squeeze is the MD, and without him all stops!

[MWS_Brian]

This is huge. i am in IRC in #rxaffilaite for any real time chats for the next hour to discuss, and will be more then happy to be on again about 10:00PM EST in anyone wants

[MWS_Brian]

Ok all. Live on IRC at 10:00PM EST tonite, #rxaffiliate. All OP and affiliates welcome.


Admin, if you put up a chat area, I will be more then happy to be there instead.Or a IRC plugin ??

[drugsdr]

Ok all. Live on IRC at 10:00PM EST tonite, #rxaffiliate. All OP and affiliates welcome.


Admin, if you put up a chat area, I will be more then happy to be there instead. Or a IRC plugin ??

What network is this on, Efnet? Dalnet?

[artie]

http://www.heraldtribune.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20031020/APN/310200898

[MWS_Brian]

dalnet

[redex]

ROTFLMAO. Does anyone else see any humor here:


http://canaryassyellow.com/dea.gif

[drugsdr]

http://www.heraldtribune.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20031020/APN/310200898


Interesting in this article I see the first mention of "EVA Global" I've seen in the press.

EVA must have spent a LARGE amount of money on their new outbound call centre which somebody posted a picture of in a recent thread.

My guess is if they are prepared to spend that sort of money on a huge new call centre they will be prepared to spend at least as much on lawyers defending their right to conduct business in a manner which they believe to be 100% legal.

EVA, E-scripts, and a number of other big companies in this industry may not be posting here in this message board. But I'll put money on the fact they are not siting back doing nothing while this is going on.

Many of us affiliates can operate our businesses with minimal overheads, while some of these big companies will have millions of real dollars invested in infrastructure needed to run their businesses. They will fight to protect this investment for sure.

And in the process they will be fighting for our rights to continue to operate our affiliate businesses.

[iggy]

Thats too funny redex!!

[DEWIE42]

OMGAWD....The sponsors.....Just more free advetising lol...smileys/smiley2.gif

[drugsdr]

Ok all. Live on IRC at 10:00PM EST tonite, #rxaffiliate. All OP and affiliates welcome.


Admin, if you put up a chat area, I will be more then happy to be there instead. Or a IRC plugin ??

What network is this on, Efnet? Dalnet?

Is this now? I popped into the channel and am the only person there?

[redex]

If the DEA was going to fulfill all your fears and paranoid thoughts and shut down the industry as you all seem to hope for, don't you think they would have padlocked Lifeline's doors. What did they do. They took their license to sell controlled substances. They are still selling everything else, just not the diet pills and sleeping pills. You can still get all the ultram, viagra, acyclovir and propecia you want through them. STOP THE INSANITY! http://rxaffiliate.web104.discountasp.net/smileys/smiley4.gif