is ther Shave(Fraud) From Cashadmin

[Drg]

Hello.
I found how cashadmin is shaving. If customer, which click to your link(http://de.generic4all.com/ID,0,0.dhtml?refID=ID) change language at public shop, your ID is lost and you are not get comission for this order!!
Russian:
Месяц назад я решил попробовать работать с кешадмином, т.к. они вроде бы принимают Германию. И нашел баг, который я потом понял является шейвом.
Если кастомер заходит по вашей ссылке например на немецкую версию шопа, и потом меняет ее на английскую французскую или испанскую, то ID пропадает.
Это легко заметить по коду, который появляется под телефоном.
Три недели назад я попросил исправить эту проблему, однако до сих пор она не исправлена.
Это однозначно шейв, т.к. партнерке не выгодно исправлять данную проблему, чтобы вебмастерам не засчитывались продажи.
Я сам как вебмастер понимаю, чтобы исправить этот "баг" необходимо затратить максимум час...
И главное представьте сколько они работают по такой схеме и сколько денег они украли у вебмастеров.
Нормальная контора предоставила бы комиссии... или хотя бы мгновенно попыталась бы исправить данные баг

[vij]

Have pm'ed yaron. He might reply

[YaronCA]

To Drg,

This accusation doesn't deserve my response. The only reason I am responding to this dangerous assertion is that I was asked by Vij in person to do so.

We don't kid or joke around about our affiliates' money and earnings. We stay on top of our competition by making sure our affiliates are all paid in full and achieve the maximum income they can make in this industry.

Everything is totally transparent on our affiliate panel. That means all clicks are registered in real time. If any of our affiliates feel that something is wrong with his account, then anyone can approach us and let us know immediately and we will take care of the issue ASAP (we answer each and every email or message personally as you all know).

This accusation is ridiculous, to say the least. If there is a bug, it will be fixed as soon as time allows. But to say that we are "shaving" by doing this is an insult to intelligence, and I'm sure that our successful affiliates as well as others that understand how this industry works will agree with me.

[Drg]

To Drg,

This accusation doesn't deserve my response. The only reason I am responding to this dangerous assertion is that I was asked by Vij in person to do so.

We don't kid or joke around about our affiliates' money and earnings. We stay on top of our competition by making sure our affiliates are all paid in full and achieve the maximum income they can make in this industry.

Everything is totally transparent on our affiliate panel. That means all clicks are registered in real time. If any of our affiliates feel that something is wrong with his account, then anyone can approach us and let us know immediately and we will take care of the issue ASAP (we answer each and every email or message personally as you all know).

This accusation is ridiculous, to say the least. If there is a bug, it will be fixed as soon as time allows. But to say that we are "shaving" by doing this is an insult to intelligence, and I'm sure that our successful affiliates as well as others that understand how this industry works will agree with me.
I said to YOUR support 3 WEEKS AGO about this bug , but After 3 week you did not fixed this is "bug", because you don't want to do this.
You shave some years. Webmasters lost a lot of orders from this "bug"! This is a shave!
I web programmist and I know, that this is bug can be fixed 15-30 MINUTES. and NOT A THREE WEEKS!
Will you pay the comission for webmasters for this bug?


Webmasters who do not believe me can do to try to do a test order.
What you need:
1) Delete all cookies at your browser
2) Click to the you referal id link such as http://de.generic4all.com/YOURID,0,0.dhtml?refID=YOURID
3) You can see code at the botton of number phone AR*****G02
4) change language, You can see that code will be lost
5) Try to buy something by Wire,
6) After that You can not find new order at admin area!!
So if you send European traffic you lost some of your order. Because several countries such as Canada Belgium, Switzerland, Austria, Italy.... have 2,3 official languages.

[vij]

I must admit, it is a concern. Yaron, is this bug something thats cropped up recently (or) is this how you were running all along.

[Drg]

I must admit, it is a concern. Yaron, is this bug something thats cropped up recently (or) is this how you were running all along.
This bug was all the time(years)! I can say(help) cashadmin, how this bug can be fix quickly. I know few methods for fixed this bug. But cashadmin doen't want help from me. :confused:
I wrote to YaronCA(ICQ) yesterday, but YaronCA did not answer me. I do not understand this behavior.

[YaronCA]

First of all I want to say that it is unfortunate that this whole issue came to the point where people use dirty tactics to negotiate their terms with us.

A) The bug at issue is a result of a recent synch of our network that took place 6 weeks ago. These synchs are done regularly for maintenance of our sites. Drg spotted this bug and we thank him for pointing it out to us so we can fix it. The bug is already fixed, but since we synch our network every few weeks – people should remember that we are not a small company, and that we operate complicated systems that have protocols and procedures on when and how we update – the effects will be eliminated when the next synch goes into effect.

B) I will address the other "accusation" by saying that the assertion that we are "shaving" has no basis in reality. I said it before and I'll say it again. We are a company whose top concern is the satisfaction of our affiliates. Those who have been with us for months and years see this in the way we treat them, the way we address their concerns, and especially the way we convert for them. We are the best converting program in this industry right now, and we are doing everything possible to stay the best. "Shaving" is a tactic for companies that think short term and can't compete. We are here to stay and "shaving" is against our interests. We have done some internal research in the last few days and found that the number of customers that come to our sites and then switch languages is less than 0.5%. Since most of our affiliates are professionals and know exactly where their traffic is coming from and where they're sending it too, the number of orders that were not counted is even lower.

At first I was confused as to why, if you really thought we were not being honest with you, why you kept sending traffic to Cashadmin and converting with us. Then I saw your message on ICQ, and it became clear to me. This whole ordeal is nothing more than a sorry attempt to extort more commission by threatening a company instead of negotiating like a real businessman, as my ICQ record shows.

We do not negotiate under threat, and I refuse to work with people who use these tactics. Moreover, people that make such accusations against a company usually don't ask to work with that company. Therefore, I came to the decision for both our sakes to have your account manager, Slava, suspend your account indefinitely. Obviously your outstanding commissions will be paid in full, and we wish you luck.

This is a competitive industry and we do our best to excel in every area. We do not force anyone to work with us, but those that do are comfortable knowing that they are working with a company that does its best to meet all their needs. We appreciate clean business, and expect nothing less in return.

[Drg]

Hello! I speak english not so good and that is why Yaron used this.
Don't work with CashAdmin because CashAdmin Have Not clean business
Unfortunately, Yaron Liar!!!


The bug at issue is a result of a recent synch of our network that took place 6 weeks ago.

That's not true! You can open http://web.archive.org/web/20110716123810/http://de.generic4all.com/ and look html code.
This bug was always!



Drg spotted this bug and we thank him

Big Thanks, After that My account was Closed, and that is why I lose all rebills(reorder) and pending orders!



The bug is already fixed, but since we synch our network every few weeks – people should remember that we are not a small company, and that we operate complicated systems that have protocols and procedures on when and how we update – the effects will be eliminated when the next synch goes into effect.

It's a lie. That's not true! Because I sad support about this bug more than 3 weeks ago!!! Next synch will be at 2013 :-D )?
I work with several affiliate programms, for example stimul cash, rx-partners, pharmcash, and etc...
Such affiliate programms are more bigger that Cashadmin. And such affiliate programms have very complicated systems that Cashadmin, But such affiliate programms fixed ALL SERIOUS bugs next day!!!!
So Yaron is a liar!



We have done some internal research in the last few days and found that the number of customers that come to our sites and then switch languages is less than 0.5%

This is true for american traffic! But That's not true for european! I think percent near 5%
Cashadmin closed my account because Yarom affraid me that i will found another bug!
Will you pay the comission for webmasters for this bug? For ALL YEARS?



At first I was confused as to why, if you really thought we were not being honest with you, why you kept sending traffic to Cashadmin and converting with us.

Because I need A lot of time to change all my traffic! You can not fix small bug for 3 Weeks, but I need change my traffic for 3 days.



Then I saw your message on ICQ, and it became clear to me. This whole ordeal is nothing more than a sorry attempt to extort more commission by threatening a company instead of negotiating like a real businessman, as my ICQ record shows.

Here is my message at ICQ 3 days ago! I have 70 orders per month for From 16 Febuary to 16 March.
I see information at forums, that Cashadmin pay 30% for 50 orders per month, I asked only 28%.
Because Slava(lower support) sad that only Ron can increase my comission!

Hello Ron.
I am Drg from rxaffiliateforum.
Are your here?
I think that the opposition does not need anyone. May be you really don't know about this bug and this is not shaving.
You should understand me that I do not like a long time do not correct serious bugs. I wait three weeks, but this serious bugs don't fixed!
My suggestions are:
1) You will fix this bug very quickly. I can say your webmasters how to fix this bug quickly, if so need.
2) I will ask moderator of rxaffiliateforum delete topic.
3) You increase my comission to 28%(I have 50orders per month)
4) I will be recommen your affiliate program to webmasters who can send germany traffic
Are you agree to peace?

When I suggested to the peace, I was hoping that cashadmin adequate.



This whole ordeal is nothing more than a sorry attempt to extort more commission by threatening a company instead of negotiating like a real businessman, as my ICQ record shows.

YaronCa is not a Real businessman, because YaronCa did not answeared me at ICQ and He Wrote this message at forum!



Everything is totally transparent on our affiliate panel. That means all clicks are registered in real time.

affiliate panel is not transparent, because panel don't show billing clicks, panel don't show visa declines and more more more.
Cashadmin has a very bad affiliate panel, Cashadmin has not own forum, because They affraid that somebody will write bad something wright about Cashadmin.
I don't want to write all problems of Cashadmin here because, It is not ethical.
I am from Russia. Russian webmaster Don't like Cashadmin. Support of Cashadmin immediately go to ban at Russian Forums.
So what Cashadmin say about this: Why Another affiliate parterners at this forum don't ban at russian forums?


I work with several affiliate partners, But I have not seen such a bad attitude to affiliates.
My account was closed, because i found this bug! Don't work with cashadmin! If you don't want lost your order don't work with Cashadmin.
P.S. It is a pity that such a bad affiliate company operates such a good manager(support), like Slava Lvov. Slava very good support, but Slava Lvov has very bad chief(boss) Yaron!

[vij]

Please refrain from resorting to personal remarks on the forum:) Drg has made his point and Yaron has replied to it. Since the "language switch" issue is now resolved, I think it is best to talk other issues personally.

Leaving this thread open for now...

[katardy]

We do not negotiate under threat, and I refuse to work with people who use these tactics. Moreover, people that make such accusations against a company usually don't ask to work with that company. Therefore, I came to the decision for both our sakes to have your account manager, Slava, suspend your account indefinitely. Obviously your outstanding commissions will be paid in full, and we wish you luck.

So, you have blocked his account because :
1.Cashadmin don't fix bugs and affiliates lose money?
2.He tell you to rise his commission because he had made more than 50 orders?

[Osalesmarket]

Aside from everything that has been told, just like any other employer having an employee working for them. Wouldn't he fire that employee for acting up and creating a negative field in the working environment?

Maybe it was wrong to close his account. But if it remained open, who knows if the affiliate would keep nagging to the company about anything else. So to avoid any further issues, that could be the reason why he was let go, or account closed.

I do see drg's point, but we have to see cashadmins point as well. From a manager or boss's point of view.

But me trying to put myself in DRGs shoes, I would be really stressed and bummed out, but also real dissapointed and angry that I just lose 70 future sales on my sites. I'm no different then he is, since we are both marketers for these affiliate sites but I think some sort of reconciliation should take in place.

Lets says if DRGs situation was fixed and went from 70 sales to 100 sales after that.

He would have made more $ to cashadmin.

But closing the doors on him just like that will prevent those additional 30 sales.
Now this is my opinion and I have no right to tell anyone how to run their business but, I think DRG should have a second chance, get his issues fixed. Apologize mostly for just calling the company a ripoff because we can't really just point fingers out just like that. We have to fix things as respectfully as possible. And continue making $ in the end.

Now I haven't personally ever worked with cashadmin. Would be interested, but would like to see a followup on this hiccup to see if the issue has been resolved. With DRGs account closed we have no follow up or way to confirm that this issue has been resolved.

[YaronCA]

Thank you medsxpress for clarifying the point. What we did, for us, was an extreme measure. We don't do it often and don't enjoy suspending an account of a working affiliate. We simply cannot work with someone who does not want to listen, and what he said on this forum and other forums was not the only negative and libelous remarks made. Calling me and my staff personally liars on public forums (and in private) is not something I'm prepared to tolerate for myself or our company. We took extreme measures as we felt those same extreme measures were being taken against us.

True, in the end this business is about making money, but we value mutual respect just as highly in terms of our own standards towards our affiliates, as well as theirs towards us.

I am not afraid of criticism of Cashadmin and I do not hide from it. In fact, I welcome it, as this is how our program continually improves. We also do not hide from our responsibilities to our affiliates. In terms of follow-up, I am taking personal responsibility for it. Once the issue is resolved, I will let you and any other affiliate know.

As for Drg, I will consider what you said, but for now I am sticking with my decision.

[vij]

In terms of follow-up, I am taking personal responsibility for it. Once the issue is resolved, I will let you and any other affiliate know.


I was under the impression that the bug was fixed. Anyways, please do post here if possible once the bug is fixed. It might be a small thing, but everything counts Yaron - you know the affiliate psyche - we expect the best from the best ;) Thanks.

[YaronCA]

I refer you to my previous post Vij:



The bug is already fixed, but since we synch our network every few weeks the effects will be eliminated when the next synch goes into effect.
[/B]

[Osalesmarket]

@YaronCA Please do keep us updated, I would be interested in knowing how everythings worked out in the end. I have PMed you some questions. ;)

[MEZO]

Here is my message at ICQ 3 days ago! I have 70 orders per month for From 16 Febuary to 16 March.
I see information at forums, that Cashadmin pay 30% for 50 orders per month, I asked only 28%.
Because Slava(lower support) sad that only Ron can increase my comission!

Last Jan , I sent 30 orders to CashAdmin , on Feb I sent 60 orders so at the start of March I asked my affiliate manger ( Marc ) to increase my commission % , and he did but had increased it by 1% ( I was getting 24% ) , I tried many times to increase the % but he told me that he can't do anything with his boss before I send at least 100 orders a month .
When I asked him about the 35 % he told me that I have to send 1000 orders a month , I can't redirect all my traffic to CashAdmin !!
I like CashAdmin's guys and like to see my traffic happy with the pills quality :rolleyes:

[Osalesmarket]

@Mezo this is a common situation I think I can be familiar with. Though I am not a current affiliate with this program yet.

What I've done in the past to speak about commission and increase in commissions. I usually always go to their website, copy paste lets say this type of info that is on cashadmin:
--------------------------------
For New Affiliates
If you haven’t signed up with Cashadmin yet and you want to start making money with us, up to 10 orders you’ll get 22% commission.
BUT – if you send us 10-20 orders, we’ll up it to 24%.
AND – if you send us 20-30 orders, it goes up to 27%.
LAST BUT NOT LEAST – above 30, 30 is what your commission is. 30%!
s always, any customer you refer once is yours FOR LIFE. You get ALL reorders, ALL the time. And once we have a loyal customer, that customer stays with us because our prices are simply the best on the net.
--------------------------------

And let them know that on their own site it states what the commission should be like for X amount of orders made per month. If you haven't done that though.

If you have and they haven't done the appropriate change then you should keep bugging about that. Never the less remember that respectfully. One thing I've encountered in my past is that when something is not done right when 1 company says they will do such thing if this is made, and takes a while to get it done, the person requesting the change usually loses their temper and starts breaking all hell lose to the end not gaining anything. Patience is something you have to have with these companies.

That's just my input though, don't need to take it in or anything just my .02 cents if I've offended anyone in any way I'm sorry it wasn't my intention.

[MEZO]

@Mezo this is a common situation I think I can be familiar with. Though I am not a current affiliate with this program yet.

What I've done in the past to speak about commission and increase in commissions. I usually always go to their website, copy paste lets say this type of info that is on cashadmin:
--------------------------------
For New Affiliates
If you haven’t signed up with Cashadmin yet and you want to start making money with us, up to 10 orders you’ll get 22% commission.
BUT – if you send us 10-20 orders, we’ll up it to 24%.
AND – if you send us 20-30 orders, it goes up to 27%.
LAST BUT NOT LEAST – above 30, 30 is what your commission is. 30%!
s always, any customer you refer once is yours FOR LIFE. You get ALL reorders, ALL the time. And once we have a loyal customer, that customer stays with us because our prices are simply the best on the net.
--------------------------------

And let them know that on their own site it states what the commission should be like for X amount of orders made per month. If you haven't done that though.

If you have and they haven't done the appropriate change then you should keep bugging about that. Never the less remember that respectfully. One thing I've encountered in my past is that when something is not done right when 1 company says they will do such thing if this is made, and takes a while to get it done, the person requesting the change usually loses their temper and starts breaking all hell lose to the end not gaining anything. Patience is something you have to have with these companies.

That's just my input though, don't need to take it in or anything just my .02 cents if I've offended anyone in any way I'm sorry it wasn't my intention.

Bro , don't talk about CashAdmin in this way , you have to work with them before posting false info ,
the commission % structure you posted was for a promotion campaign on Feb 2011 , I've started working with CashAdmin on Jan 2012 :D i.e this structure wasn't available for me !!
I keep working with CashAdmin for 3 reasons ;
1st : The high Conversion rate ,,, from 1 March till today I've Conversion rate: 30.5%, total referrals - 177, total success orders - 54 .... I work with 3 other programs but conversion rate doesn't go above 6 - 7 % .
2nd : The friendly affiliate support ( Marc rocks ) , I respect the man who said "All lasting business is built on friendship !!"
3rd : Their high reorder rate , you have to order from one of their shops as a customer( I'll be thankful if you do that through my aff link hehheheh ) to know what they are offering the customers to make them reorder and to make you some serious money .

I responded to DRG to make him know that the info he read on forums isn't true , CashAdmin work with all their affiliates in a professional way and it's not logical to ban one of their affiliates who asked for a commission % increase !!

[lol]

30.5% conversion rate its mean 1:3 ? since start 2011 i did not seen same convert ratio :rolleyes:

[Osalesmarket]

@Mezo, With all respect, I was just trying to assist you with what you where inquiring or having an issue about. I'm not trying to offend you in any way at all but if english is your second language then I misunderstood your entire post. From this post that you made this is what I perceived:

------------------------------
Last Jan , I sent 30 orders to CashAdmin , on Feb I sent 60 orders so at the start of March I asked my affiliate manger ( Marc ) to increase my commission % , and he did but had increased it by 1% ( I was getting 24% ) , I tried many times to increase the % but he told me that he can't do anything with his boss before I send at least 100 orders a month .
When I asked him about the 35 % he told me that I have to send 1000 orders a month , I can't redirect all my traffic to CashAdmin !!
I like CashAdmin's guys and like to see my traffic happy with the pills quality
------------------------------

On the bolded section I understood that you sent X amount of traffic for them and that you inquired for a commission increase, got 1%, and but thought you had a problem trying to get more. So I replied to your post by saying as an example if an affiliate program says they can give X amount of % for X amount of sales and you exceed that quota and they still don't give you that percent, you can bring to them what they advertised to show why you are requesting your percent increase.

I in no way have spoken bad about cashadmin in fact I've just recently inquired and signed up already into their aff program. It's already been approved and what not and all I'm waiting for is just the time and cash to invest on my marketing.

Your having success with them right on.. If your happy with them and everything works out great I'm sure I'll be as well. Just have to get clients to head to the page that's all.

Please don't take this post or reply in any offense because my intentions where not to offend you in any way. Was just trying help you out a bit since it seemed like you had an issue.

Sorry if I misunderstood.

[MEZO]

@medsxpress , I'm so sorry about my bad tone and language , English is my 3rd language :/
Anyways , Thanks for trying helping me :o

[Drg]

Today I got my money(earnings). However, cashadmin STOLE ALL my future rebills(reorders).



A) The bug at issue is a result of a recent synch of our network that took place 6 weeks ago. These synchs are done regularly for maintenance of our sites. Drg spotted this bug and we thank him for pointing it out to us so we can fix it. The bug is already fixed, but since we synch our network every few weeks – people should remember that we are not a small company, and that we operate complicated systems that have protocols and procedures on when and how we update – the effects will be eliminated when the next synch goes into effect.
[/B]
YaronCA! It took six weeks(I found this bug 6 weeks ago), but Bug is not fixed. I understand, that cashadmin don't want fix this bug, because this is shaving Cashadmin blocked my account, because cashadmin affraid, that i can find another shaving!
You can make a conclusion for yourself!

[vij]

Yaron, I am confused man. I looked at you past reply and it seems contradictory.

The bug is already fixed, but since we synch our network every few weeks the effects will be eliminated when the next synch goes into effect.
So are you saying that affiliates are still not getting credit for certain sales at this point in time.

[Drg]

Yaron, I am confused man. I looked at you past reply and it seems contradictory.

So are you saying that affiliates are still not getting credit for certain sales at this point in time.
Vij, Yaron don't want responde to you, because:


This accusation doesn't deserve my response.


Yesterday a bug was fixed, But where is Yaron)?

I am taking personal responsibility for it. Once the issue is resolved, I will let you and any other affiliate know.

Only the stupid believe it:

but since we synch our network every few weeks – people should remember that we are not a small company, and that we operate complicated systems that have protocols and procedures on when and how we update – the effects will be eliminated when the next synch goes into effect.

Cashadmin has not good webmasters, This is the main reason why they are so long fixed this bug!
Cashadmin fixed bug for 7 weeks, but Any good webmaster can fix this bug for 1 hour.
You can make a conclusion for yourself!

It's not just my opinion. I am very not satisfied that I started working with cashadmin, because I read about cashadmin on this forum.

[vij]

Yaron has confirmed that all bugs have been fixed and its all good now.

[lol]

After 7 weeks :trollface:

[Drg]

Once the issue is resolved, I will let you and any other affiliate know.

And Where is "Yaron has condirmed that all bugs have been fixed"? in PM? Hidden messages?
Yaron has no respect to affiliates, and he did not even deign to post message on the forum.

Yaron has confirmed that all bugs have been fixed and its all good now.
I found only ONE bug! What is another bugs?

vij, I do not understand why you edit each my post and delete the truth? Censorship?
But you do not remove(delete) the false phrases of Yaron!
For example:


At first I was confused as to why, if you really thought we were not being honest with you, why you kept sending traffic to Cashadmin and converting with us. Then I saw your message on ICQ, and it became clear to me. This whole ordeal is nothing more than a sorry attempt to extort more commission by threatening a company instead of negotiating like a real businessman, as my ICQ record shows.


Calling me and my staff personally liars on public forums (and in private) is not something
This is not true!!! So Yaron liar:

Once the issue is resolved, I will let you and any other affiliate know.

Yaron lied and He has not confirmed on forum, that bug was fixed BEFORE MY POST!

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/liar
noun
a person who tells lies.
I did not insulted (affronted ) Yaron, You can see that Yaron a person, who tells lies.

Yaron, I am confused man. I looked at you past reply and it seems contradictory.

[vij]

Drg, I only edited few words here and there just so as to not lose focus from the issue at hand - that is all mate. I am sure you notice that I have kept the gist of your post intact.

I agree that this issue was brought to light by you and you helped get this fixed. I know you feel undone by as your account got closed. I am an affiliate too and I understand and feel your frustration. I would still like to believe that Yaron is a reasonable guy - please talk to him and get your account back.

It would surely be a show of good faith from cashadmin if yaron and drg can work their differences out, especially as there was without doubt an error. Ofcourse do that via pm ;)


sometimes with war of words you tend to lose the battle.