DEA Shuts Down Florida Pharmacy

[jpoh67]

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/6982742.htm


Does anyone know who this is or how it will affect us?

[Affiliate]

Holy sh*t! I think there are a few OPs in that building. USA Prescriptions address is:


USA Prescription, Inc.
5400 South University Drive
Suite 401
Davie, FL 33328

[manager]

USAP moved to Weston, Fl.... I just did a search for that address and I found over 25 pharmacies or pharmacuetical firms in that building. Who knows who it is but I'm sure they're identity will be posted here.

[Affiliate]

Here is the company's site that is in the article http://www.lifelinepharmacy.com/


Registered to:


ACCUMED HEALTH MANAGEMENT
Roberto Gomez
5400 S University Drive, Suite 405 - suite 405
Davie, FL 33328
US
Phone: 954-680-4782
Fax..: 954-680-4789
Email: universal5400@aol.com
Edited by: Affiliate

[RxSponsor.com]

I wonder on what grounds they shut them down.


This is one of the biggest supplier for some of the OP's...

[stevie]

EVA uses Lifeline according to what I've seen in my reports

[DEWIE42]

EVA for SURE fills with themsmileys/smiley6.gif

[MedsDirect]

I just got off the phone with them. The DEA revoked thier DEA License to distribut controlled substances. They are still filling viagra etc, but no controlled items like phentermine. It came with no warning or explanations, they will be contacted by the DEA lawyers with details.

[METABryan]

Hello all. This is Bryan Mauger, Affiliate Director for USA Prescription, Inc. For the record, this is NOT us and there is no association with USAP. <st1:Street><st1:address>5400 University Drive</st1:address></st1:Street> is a business park with many, many companies including several other pharmacies. Any questions or concerns, contact me at Bryan@METAbility.com.

[jpoh67]

http://www.click10.com/news/2546424/detail.html

[RxSponsor.com]

From the article:


DEA agent Joe Kilmer said illegal online sales of prescription drugs is a growing problem.





"Who knows who's taking these drugs?" Kilmer said. "It could lead to serious injury or death."


Illegal because of selling to a minor is what it looks like but I would like to know what else they deem as "Illegal"

[chicago]

scary stuff, I wonder who's next.....

[MarketingMaster]

Anyone speak to Doug to see what impact this has on EVA?

[Buzz]

I wonder what this will do to others such as MyRxBiz or any of the other pharmacies.


I've got a bad feeling about this.

[DaveM]

"Agents say their investigation began when an agent posing as a 17-year-old girl was able to buy drugs on the Internet."


Which means the "Agent" had to falsify the online forms including name, address, medical conditions, and AGE. No way will this case hold up in court.


What it does do is cost this company serious money to defend itself and cause problems for legal, legitimate companies such as ours and our legal customers.


The only serious problem that is being caused by online pharmacies is that the big brick and morter pharmacies are losing millions. Seems like we need a Lobby Groupin Washington!

[MedsDirect]

One pharmacy I am familiar with fullfils for MWS, EScripts and Platinum. Just got off the phone with the head honcho and says they are toatlly unaffected by this. Most OPs use multiple pharmacies as well, so I honestly think this will have little impact on everyones sytems.


The articles quotes volume of about 1000 scripts a day, which is a very, very small piece of the pie.


Just my thoughts on it

[RxSponsor.com]

When people complain about declines they don't realize that it is a GOOD THING!!


I bet these guys were approving too many orders that should not have been. If this industry is to survive we can't be GREEDY...

[rxmary]

Did the agent state in the online consultation that he/she was 17?? If so then they were wrong to sell it to them! should've denied it.


The case may or may not stand up. If they have a good attorney and can prove entrapment.....maybe


however, NO WAY should they approve a script for a 17 yr old!

[redex]

The last question on the medical questionaire generally reads:



<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=2 border=0 <TR>
<T>
<TR>
<TD vAlign=top></TD>
<TD>


Did you answer all questions truthfully to the best of your knowledge?


And other agreements:


The Consulting Physician reviewing my "Medical History Questionnaire" will make a decision based upon my honest responses in making his or her decision regarding my request. I understand each question I answered on the questionnaire was responded to truthfully, accurately and completely. I also understand that failure on my part to provide truthful, accurate and complete information to the Consulting Physician could cause him or her to unknowingly make an inappropriate treatment decision affecting my physical or mental health. To prevent this occurrence, I acknowledge that it is of utmost importance that I am truthful when answering the questions asked in the "Medical History Questionnaire";


Then again, they can sell you coke and then bust you for buying it so I wouldn't say it is gonna be kicked out of court. It is illegal toprescribe controlled substances in the state of Florida via telemedicine.


Damn I am glad I don't sell Phentermine! Woohoo!!smileys/smiley16.gif</TD></TR></T></TABLE>

[MWS_Brian]

www.mwsllc.com (http://www.mwsllc.com) has never allowed a application for an under 18 year old person.


tss did ( and still does it looks like), and i guess the doc and pharmacymissed it. hindsight is 20/20.


This is also where they want docs and pharmacies about overprescribing.


BTW, platinum-rx i was told u can get through being 15. wierd. Other ops, take note !!


Hate to get on a soapbox here, but it really is a very hard business to run legal. Our legal bills are mroe then we make !!


I personally know these guys though, and I will vouch for them that they never did anything intentionally wrong. I am sure they will come out of this ok, and the pharamcy will justhave to pay a fine or whatever


Good luck Theo and Eman !!

[Laura]

Pointing fingers at any one is not appropirate right now, you know that know no one condones this and that they would have stopped it if they could have. Don't goplacing accusations you have nobasis for.


This isa very risky business andall you can do is keep your eyes wide open and try to make the best decisions for the company.

[redex]

How hard is it to check the birth year on the order form. Everything else is checked for proper input prior to proceeding. Other OPs do it, a couple lines of Java script could have prevented this from happening. I just placed a test order with my birth year 1987 and it sailed right through. OOPS!

[chicago]

the javascript thing is a bad idea....


I think if they are under 18 the order should still go through and then be rejected.


if they claim it was an error, make them prove it by faxing in an ID.


could have prevented this problem anyways....

[Laura]

If you placed the order in Eapps, there is only one person who has control of and can add script to Eapps.

[kaylowe]

No computer guru here, but seems a small thing to have the software automatically reject any orders if birth year shows that they are not yet 18. Am I missing something here?


I'm sure that they could be screened and the order never even be processed. Was that what you were referring to doing via script?


Kay Lowe

[Shark Attack]

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=2 border=0 <TR><T>
<T>
<TR>
<TD vAlign=top></TD>
<TD>


Damn I am glad I don't sell Phentermine! Woohoo!!smileys/smiley16.gif</TD></TR></T></T></TABLE>





Makes me wish I didn'tsell so much Phentermine !!

[JohnnyCochran]

I just got off the phone with the big guy at EVA. Of course they run with multiple pharmacies all throughout the USA so this is a minor problem. It it were serious, you would have seen people in handcuffs on the television news. (DEA guys earning their paychecks.)

Brian (MWS) is completely correct, this was probably a special case because as we all know from the decline rates, they are very careful about ordering too soon. Hint: The tss system has many interfaces with other systems for moving orders around with other OP's. It is a possibility that a forwarded order made it through one of those interfaces.

All my orders where shipped normally today so I did not see anything usual until I read the forum.

[MarketingMaster]

Who? Doug? He's not that big from what I hear.

[Buzz]

It's a relief that this situation is a minor problem, but it certainly was a sobering reminder to me that we are towards the end of the OP life expectancy.


How much time left do you think we have leftJohnnyCochran?

[MyRxBizcom]

.

[stevie]

why would they raid them and confiscate things? I guess I'm confused why they wouldn't just fine them if it was an offense of selling drugs to a minor by mistake and especially if it was a case in which false pretense was used to "catch them in the act". I don't know the law though either. It'd be nice to have some lawyers on board huh?


Seems to me if Walgreens made a script to a minor they'd never know the difference would they? I've never seen people being carded there. . . You also don't hear about your local Walgreens or CVS getting raided.... I'm guessing the volume limits were TOTALLY MAXED OUT and this is the cause for their raid.

[redex]

If Walgreens sold ten thousand phentermine orders a day and only three prozac, the DEA would be there, trust me.


What I cannot understand, assuming that LifeLine was a fulfillment center, is why didn't the DEA or the Florida Board of Medicine go after the doctor that wrote the script! HE is the one ultimately responsible here, I would think. Maybe I am wrong.

[iggy]

It does seem a bit odd that they "raided" the pharm.

More and more, I start to wonder if we will make it through 2004...

[MWS_Brian]

There will be more......lets see....

[MWS_Brian]

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/southflorida/sfl-rxphar11oct11,0,6804573.story?coll=sfla-home-headlines

[DEWIE42]

Feds shut down drug sales at Davie pharmacy
--------------------

By Bob LaMendola
Health Writer

October 11, 2003

Federal agents shut down part of a Davie pharmacy and seized boxes of pain medications on Friday, accusing the company of illegally peddling millions of powerful diet and sleeping pills via the Internet.

The U.S. Drug Enforcement Administration raided C&amp;H Wholesale Inc. and its Internet outlet, Lifeline Pharmacy, after an investigation that lasted at least six months, DEA documents show.

Both companies are owned in the same office by Frank and Amada Hernandez.

C&amp;H sold at least 5.6 million doses of controlled substance pills to Internet pharmacies including Lifeline since May 2002, and Lifeline sold 2.9 million to online customers in less than three months this year, the DEA said in a complaint.

State pharmacy standards require doctors to see patients before writing a prescription.

But Lifeline mailed bottles of pills to patients who had merely filled out an online form, including an undercover agent who posed as a slender teenaged girl, the DEA said.

Doctors supposedly signed off on the prescriptions, but none ever saw the patients.

"Lifeline is dispensing prescriptions for controlled substances based on Internet orders that do not involve any personal contact," the DEA complaint said. "The owners, pharmacists and employees all have direct knowledge there is no legitimate physician/patient relationship."

C&amp;H officials could not be reached for comment. The company issued a statement saying the operation exceeds the standards that its lawyers and clinical leaders consider proper, and saying the government has not been clear about the rules for online drug dispensing.

"To this date, the federal and state governments have provided insufficient guidance by which Internet pharmaceutical services can be administered," the statement said. "Yet it may well be the future of how health care prescriptions are filled."

The DEA complaint is not a criminal charge, it is a regulatory action. The agency suspended the company's federal license to deal in controlled substances, shut down that aspect of its operation and moved to revoke the license. The company has 30 days to appeal.

The two companies are at 5400 S. University Drive, the same Davie office building that is home to RX Network, an Internet pharmacy that had its state license suspended in June. That case is pending.

C&amp;H opened in 1999 and became a high-volume wholesaler of the sleeping pill Ambien and diet pills including amphetamines and phentermine, the DEA said. Its main buyers were Internet pharmacies.

Lifeline opened in February and was filling 1,000 prescriptions a day from 50 online pharmacies related to the company, the DEA said. Agents posed as Internet buyers and obtained drugs easily within days.

In July, an agent filled out a form on www.speedyrx.com (http://www.speedyrx.com) posing as Brittany, 17, who is 5-feet, 5 inches tall and 130 pounds, and ordered 90 Bontril diet pills, the DEA said. When the Web site responded that she was too thin to qualify, the agent changed the height to 5-feet tall and the order was filled.

The pills were approved by one of five doctors listed in Lifeline's roster and by a pharmacist employed by the company, the DEA said.

Bob LaMendola can be reached at blamendola@sun-sentinel.com or 954-356-4526.



Copyright (c) 2003, South Florida Sun-Sentinel

Visit Sun-Sentinel.com

[phalaris]

"Doctors supposedly signed off on the prescriptions, but none ever saw the patients."


Why do newspapers hire reporters who are total morons?

[DEWIE42]

Guess we crossed posted Brian smileys/smiley2.gif

[Affiliate]

"In July, an agent filled out a form on www.speedyrx.com (http://www.speedyrx.com/) posing as Brittany, 17, who is 5-feet, 5 inches tall and 130 pounds, and ordered 90 Bontril diet pills, the DEA said. When the Web site responded that she was too thin to qualify, the agent changed the height to 5-feet tall and the order was filled. "


That's an EVA affiliate site. DOH!

[redex]

The agent LIED AGAIN and said he was five feet tall!

[Buzz]

Unfortunately, the government lies all the time. They pose as drug dealers, drug buyers, hit men, prostitutes, and the list goes on.


I think it's B.S., but that's how they work.

[JohnnyCochran]

speedyrx.com is going to get record sales today. Too bad this is not a national story.Edited by: JohnnyCochran

[Rob35]

"In July, an agent filled out a form on www.speedyrx.com (http://www.speedyrx.com/) posing as Brittany, 17, who is 5-feet, 5 inches tall and 130 pounds, and ordered 90 Bontril diet pills, the DEA said. When the Web site responded that she was too thin to qualify, the agent changed the height to 5-feet tall and the order was filled. "


When filling out the forms, there is a question that asks if you have truthfully answered all the questions. So, the pharmacy gets jacked because the agent had to change her stats to reel the pharmacy in. If that was a regular citizen caught knowingly falsifying the documents to obtain specific medicines, the regular citizen would be going to court and not the pharmacy..

[kaylowe]

Rob, I agree with your take on the situation as how is should be. However, you and I and all of us know that these situations don't always turn out that way. It would be very feasible, even likely, that our fictional Brittany would get into trouble (parents find out, she od's or gets sick, maybe anorexic) and parents would seize the opportunity to sue MD, pharmacy, and anyone else w/$$ for megabucks. They would claim negligence for not having a foolproof method for screening out minors. And they would have a good chance of winning. I'm not an attorney, but we read all too often of such cases. Everyday. Johnny C, am I right?

Unfortunate but true; our society seeks to blame everyone and anyone else; there is no personal responsibility. If someone gets hurt, someone else is to blame, especially if a minor.

OK, will someone kick my soapbox out from under me??

Kay

[Shark Attack]

I won't , I'm in total agreement - sgn of the times unfortunately - sue anyone you can, we are in a blame culture.

[Affiliate]

Might be time to go back to all price comparison sites. smileys/smiley6.gifLess risk... maybe.

[scottdaman]

Make sure you have your LLC's or Inc's in place. This ride is getting bumpy.

[Affiliate]

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/local/states/florida/counties/broward_county/6989885.htm

[RxSponsor.com]

''Lifeline is dispensing prescriptions for controlled substances based on Internet orders, which do not involve any personal contact with a physician, or the taking of adequate examination and history,'' reads a DEA affidavit.


That one line says it all.


It is only a matter of time folks...Edited by: RxSponsor.com

[Affiliate]

We all knew this industry wasn't going to last much longer. IS THIS THE END? smileys/smiley19.gif

[chicago]

it's not the end.


If the companies would make things a little tighter it could go on a lot longer! Nobody seems to want toadjust their speedy operation though. Adding Vicodin on every affiliate site is going to help either!

[RxSponsor.com]

it's not the end.


If the companies would make things a little tighter it could go on a lot longer! Nobody seems to want toadjust their speedy operation though. Adding Vicodin on every affiliate site is going to help either!





I agree that adding Vicodin and Valium are going to speed up the process of shutting down the industry.


Short-term gain but what good is it if it helps kill the whole Biz?


There are some who are just making a killing while they can and not seeing how(some see it clear as a bell)short sighted and greedy it is...


Edited by: RxSponsor.com

[MarketingMaster]

RxSponsor your negative attitude makes you an untrustworthy "affiliate manager." Why should i join your program if you think we're going down?

[redex]

The key here is they were selling CONTROLLED substances - diet pills and sleeping pills. Everything else is still fair game. The DEA didn' padlock their doors, they stopped them from selling diet pills and sleeping pills, that's all.


The company's license to sell these products was suspended until a hearing can be arranged. The company remains in business, a company spokesman said.


If those pills are what you target and make a living at, I would focus on the lesser medications and make the transistion as fast as you can. Strange, ever since the bust, my EVA diet meds and sleeping pill orders have increased. Go figger. Prolly DEA placing all those orders.Edited by: redex

[redex]

Might be time to go back to all price comparison sites. smileys/smiley6.gifLess risk... maybe.


Hmmm... I think I will do that. I know Dewie has had multiple OPS on some of her sites. That is a great idea.

[DEWIE42]

I call it Combo Sitessmileys/smiley8.gif

[Jaanis]

So has anyone heard what is going to happen (if anything) to the owner of www.speedyrx.com (http://www.speedyrx.com/) ?

[redex]

Why can't I make as much money as Redex?


LOL Jaan. OP is my life, actually I don't have a life. I need to diversify.


Dewie, combo site ! I am all over it. I will have them all ready by Monday morning! Heheh.

[MyRxBizcom]

.

[Shark Attack]

justification for what - this doesn't make sense !

[MedsDirect]

What concerns me here is that we have all understood the standard to be that Doctors in Florida cannot prescripe a diet drug without a physical visit. Now it seems the DEA is operating based on Pharmacies in Florida filling a prescription written by a Doctor anywhere that does not have a physical visit with the patient.


This would imply that all Pharmies that fill prescriptions for phentermines out of Florida need to insure that the prescribing Doctor had a physical visit with the patient.


Unless the Doctors are employed directly by accumed or C&amp;H, and the DEA is saying that regardless of where the Doctor lives, if the company that employs them is in Florida, there must be a physical visit. Or perhaps they are Florida Doctors.

[MWS_Brian]

It was a diet med. hmmmm..Good point

[redex]

Sure if I got shut down or my OP or their supplier did, I would be pissed (read negative attitude) That is justified. But it is not the end as RxSponsor pointed out. Selling meds in grey areas is going to hasten the demise of this industry. However, it will never be totally gone as Viagra, levitra, herpes meds, BC pills, and some pain meds will still be available online. Can we all survive on Viagra and Acyclovir, I think not. The greed from the phent and the ambien and the hydro and valium is exactly what the DEA wants to stop and in the case of the recent bust, that is just what they did. It has been against the law for a long time in Florida to prescribe diet pills and sleeping pills via telemedicine. With the recent enactment of telemedicine requlations covering all meds, there are fewer grey areas anymore. It is pretty much if you don' have a face to face and a physical, you cannot prescribe the meds. I could be wrong. I generally am.smileys/smiley4.gif

[kaylowe]

Red, I agre w/you on several points. $$$ talks. The health insurance industry does NOT cover the most popular meds (diet pills, viagra, levitra). So their lobby may very favor our industry.


Who knows?? I also agree w/you, Red that the industry may very well CHANGE drastically, but will not die. There is a big public demand for it.


Oh, well, just my $0.02





p.s. Why can't I make as much money as Red?? sniff, sniff

[rxmary]

I wonder if this article and others in newspapers have alerted people to the fact they can buy diet pills online? I have had a load of phentermine orders today. Usually Saturdays are dead.

[JohnnyCochran]

I tink that its important to note that LifeLine (Davie) got their DEA license suspended for because controlled substances were sent to skinny 17 year old. While they blurp out their "no physical meeting" stuff in the press, there would have been no action if not for age technicality. All the 20 other pharmacies in Florida are still shipping controls by the barrels. LifeLine will pay a fine and get their license back.

Ya guys better be more concerned about the Fuchs vs. DEA case going on in the don't F*** with state of Texas.Fuchs loses that case, we may have someting to worry about. (at least the hydrocodone people)

And if we think us web guys are protected, think again.

Press Release (http://www.usdoj.gov/usao/txn/PressRel02/friendly_fuchs_ind_pr.html)

Article from Dallas

10:00 PM CDT on Monday, October 6, 2003

By DAVE LEVINTHAL / The Dallas Morning News

A federal jury will decide whether Clayton H. Fuchs and two associates conspired to launder money and illegally sell the highly addictive narcotic hydrocodone while operating an Internet-based pharmacy.

Dallas-based U.S. District Judge Jorge A. Solis will preside over the trial. Jury selection begins Tuesday.

Mr. Fuchs is an honest pharmacist, his attorney said.

"He was doing what a pharmacist was supposed to do: fill prescriptions from doctors," attorney Danny Duane Burns said. "Hopefully, everybody will be able to walk."

According to the federal grand jury indictment, Mr. Fuchs led a ring of doctors and pharmacists who - without meeting patients face-to-face, scanning their medical records or examining them - prescribed and shipped hydrocodone and other potent drugs to the individuals.

Hydrocodone, used in such products as Lortab and Vicodin, contains painkilling power similar in strength to morphine.

The pharmacists operated three Web sites, friendlypharmacy.com, texashealthweb.com and nationpharmacy.com, through which they sold the drugs between Jan. 1, 2000, and March 31, 2001, the indictment stated.

The men divided profits Mr. Fuchs deposited into bank accounts, according to the indictment.

Pharmacists Eugene Gonzalez of Garland, who is Mr. Fuchs' stepfather, and Waldrick Lemons of DeSoto, will stand trial with Mr. Fuchs.

U.S. Attorney Jane Boyle filed the charges in December.

Three other men indicted by a federal grand jury - physicians Stephen Thompson of Garland, Robert Ogle of Rockwall and Kenneth Speak of Dallas - pleaded guilty earlier this year to one count of conspiracy to distribute a controlled substance and one count of money laundering. Their sentencing hearing is scheduled for Dec. 10.

If convicted, Mr. Fuchs could receive up to life imprisonment and a $2.5 million fine. Mr. Gonzalez faces up to 20 years in federal prison and a $250,000 fine.

Mr. Lemons faces up to five years in a federal prison and a $250,000 fine.

[rxmary]

Not sure if anyone has posted this one....


http://abcnews.go.com/sections/living/Business/CSM_drugabuse_031006.html (http://abcnews.go.com/sections/living/Business/CSM_drugabuse_031006.html)

[scottdaman]

Yep. That obvious! smileys/smiley8.gif


Don't get me wrong, this is a very serious thread that will update daily.


But then again, its like a damn soap opera too.


Scott

[RxSponsor.com]

RxSponsor your negative attitude makes you an untrustworthy "affiliate manager." Why should i join your program if you think we're going down?


Negative attitude? I think not. I'm being realistic that's all...

[drugsdr]

RxSponsor your negative attitude makes you an untrustworthy "affiliate manager." Why should i join your program if you think we're going down?


Negative attitude? I think not. I'm being realistic that's all...

If anything in my opinion joining his program over others who care less about the industry risks is a good idea. RxSponsor has been open and honest about his opinion and the industry risks on a number of recent topics.

Who would you want to be working with, someone who could possible reduce your risks in this business or someone who is after the quick dollar today, and worry about the lawyer costs tomorrow.

If you have a fly by night attitude to this industry, that all it is about is putting up cheap sites and spamming guest-books and blogs links to get your listings then you probably don't care about lawyers and these major events in the news media.

But if you want to be a part of the on-line industry tipped to generate $22 Billion (ref) by 2004 then sh*t like this IS important. You should be concerned and you should be vocal about it.


http://www.ecommercetimes.com/perl/story/2206.html

[icollect]

There's the bottom line, everybody keeps talking money and that's exactly what the feds want. It's mot just about the money.


1. A patient has the right to choose their medical provider


2. Medication administered to a patient by a doctor is the responsibity of the doctor and not the industry. The Feds just love for us to make that an industry issue.


3. Brick and mortar Pharmicies and doctors do not card people and depend on a patients honesty. An example of patients lying in order to obtain pain medication can be seen nightly at any emergency room and guess what the government is paying for it.


4. The industry needs to regulate itself and abide by all laws, the DEA is not an administrative assistant for the medical community and has done a poor job of enforcing illeagal drugs. This industry is an easy target and the medical profession is pouring money and influence intoa battle with congress who supports internet delivery.


5. These people are patients not victims, we are not only out there to make money, but help deliver information so that they can make informed decisions about their care.


6. Some of the money that's being made is going to have to be used to set up an organized opposition as opposed to just rolling over. A majority of americans and the congress support what we're doing and if we let them what's goin on with the DEA screwing with health care it could save our industry.


7. I wasting my f**king time because everybodies to busy pointing fingers than to get busy kicking some ass.

[icollect]

Check out this site and what these people are doing to get the information out. Maybe some of the big players could take the ball and run with it and we could all quit acting like we're standing on a street corner.


http://www.paincare.org/index.html

[icollect]

<LI>As many as 50,000,000 Americans suffer pain.
<LI>Almost 15,000,000 suffer chronic and intractable pain that is severe enough to be disabling.
<LI>As many as 75% of even cancer pain patients receive grossly inadequate pain relief.
<LI>Because of this, the suicide rate among pain patients is almost 20 times that of all other patients.
<LI>The main causes of inadequate pain care in the United States are "opiophobia" and Physician fear of prosecution.
<LI>Opiophobia is a state of gross ignorance about pain medications. It is fear of addiction, tolerance, organ damage, in patients using opioids to control pain. The fact is that NONE of these things happen to pain patients. Virtually none of them become addicted (although most become physically dependent upon their medicine to give them a life worth living - like diabetics become dependent upon Insulin). NONE suffer organ damage, ALL find a dose level and schedule that works and stay on them for years. Few suffer any form of withdrawal. Virtually no pain patient wants to take medications and their life improves dramatically when they do. Addicts, on the other hand, love medication and their life falls to pieces as they take more of it.
<LI>1 out of every 1400 doctors in the United States gets prosecuted for prescribing pain medication.
<LI>The War on Drugs has become a War on Doctors. Swat teams now break into doctors offices at gunpoint, and seize everything in a search for wrong-doing. So far this behavior has been immune to any official restraint.
<LI>Daily, fewer doctors are willing to treat pain, for fear of official prosecution.
<LI>The treatment of pain in America is on a downward spiral. </LI>

[iggy]

Are these criminal charges against this pharmacy?

[Affiliate]

Are these criminal charges against this pharmacy?


Read the articles smileys/smiley1.gif


I just put up an ambien site and started my link exchange campaign. I guess I'll be turning that site into a price comparison site or shutting it down all together. Anyone with balls want to buyit off me? (please PM me)Edited by: Affiliate

[redex]

Heheh, me too. comparison sites - all of them

[JohnnyCochran]

Can someone point out the differences between what Fuchs was doing in Texas (online hydrocodone sales) and what MWS is doing today by also sellig hydrocodone? (Please limit to differences that allow MWS to operate where Fuchs was shut down.)

Are they callin patients or something?

Considering going all out with the Hydrocodone sites and what to know how long they will be around.

[icollect]

I think it is signifigant that they did not arrest anyone. I don't believe the law could stand the test on many grounds.


a. Roe V Wade A right to privacy


This ruling clearly establishes a patients right to choose what medical care or medications are to be administered and under what conditions.


b. Doctor Patient Relationship


c. Hippa


e. Freedom of choice


f. Impeading a patients medical care


g. Entrapment once the doctor turned down the patient for not meeting requirements the officer commited purjury to obtain the medication by saying that it was a data entry error. The DEA seem to be making age an issue, Age for this medication is not a consideration unless the patient is under 16. Please reference included Medlineplus data. In addition since this was a credit card transaction the sumpreme court has found that a credit card is valid identification. So in this case the drug was administered appropiately.


In summary the system worked and the only peron(s) to break the law was the DEA.


The FLA lawclearly over steps the bounds of the legislation, The florida law does not have a penality, but instead establishes that the doctor patient relationship has not been established. The doctor patient relationship is a consentual relationship in all 50 states not subject to law or regulation. I lived in the 4 corners area of Kansas. The closest major medical center was in Mo. Do you really think when we got sick we just laid down and died. Hell no we went to Mo.
<H4>Description</H4>
<DIV class=minusOne>


Sympathomimetic appetite suppressants are used in the short-term treatment of obesity. Their appetite-reducing effect tends to decrease after a few weeks. Because of this, these medicines are useful only during the first few weeks of a weight-loss program. The sympathomimetic appetite suppressants can help you to lose weight while you are learning new ways to eat and to exercise. Changes in eating habits and activity level must be developed and continued long-term in order for you to continue losing weight and to keep the lost weight from returning.


These medicines are available only with your doctor's prescription, in the following dosage forms:
<UL><LH>Oral </LH>
<LI>Benzphetamine
<UL>
<LI>Tablets (U.S.) </LI>[/list]
<LI>Diethylpropion
<UL>
<LI>Tablets (U.S. and Canada)
<LI>Extended-release tablets (U.S. and Canada) </LI>[/list]
<LI>Mazindol
<UL>
<LI>Tablets (U.S. and Canada) </LI>[/list]
<LI>Phendimetrazine
<UL>
<LI>Extended-release capsules (U.S.)
<LI>Tablets (U.S.) </LI>[/list]
<LI>Phentermine
<UL>
<LI>Capsules (U.S.)
<LI>Resin capsules (U.S. and Canada)
<LI>Tablets (U.S.) </LI>[/list]</LI>[/list]</DIV>




<A name=SXX08></A>
<H4>Before Using This Medicine</H4>
<DIV class=minusOne>


In deciding to use a medicine, the risks of taking the medicine must be weighed against the good it may do. This is a decision you and your doctor will make. For sympathomimetic appetite suppressants, the following should be considered:


Allergies-Tell your doctor if you have ever had any unusual or allergic reaction to this medicine or amphetamine, dextroamphetamine, ephedrine, epinephrine, isoproterenol, metaproterenol, methamphetamine, norepinephrine, phenylephrine, phenylpropanolamine, pseudoephedrine, terbutaline, or other appetite suppressants. Also tell your health care professional if you are allergic to any other substances, such as foods, preservatives, or dyes.


Diet-You must follow a reduced-calorie diet while using an appetite suppressant in order to lose weight. Also, in order to keep the lost weight from returning, changes in diet and exercise must be continued after the weight has been lost.


Pregnancy-If a pregnant woman

[Buzz]

Post a link next time. We've all seen that information before.

[redex]

Looks good on paper, but....

[iggy]

&lt;&lt;Might be time to go back to all price comparison sites.&gt;&gt;

Definitely.

Nothing good can come of the undercover agent searching on Google, finding your site and saying "I filled out an order form for phen on your-affiliate-site.com"

In the article it says the agent filled out an order form on www.speedyrx.com. Wouldn't want that to say one of my sites.

Even if you aren't doing "comparison", simply direct users to an OP order form on your partner of choice.

I am moving towards sending all my traffic to other sites. It's worth losing a few dollars to not have to deal with this crap.

[JohnnyCochran]

"I no longer have access to any of my customers emails but TSS...."

All you have to do is request your emails from Theo and he emails them to you.

[chicago]

I was thinking that if online prescriptions become banned that the DEA is going to have a whole new problem. So many more people will start to order from international pharmacies that they are going to have their hands full dealing with that. Do any international pharmacies ship the weight loss meds into the US?

[chicago]

What are you going to do if tomorrow this business was gone? Some of you will say "oh well, I'll just move on to the next thing". Some of you will say, "there's really nothing we can do about it, it was inevitable in this business". And some of you will say "how am I going to feed my family now?"





While I don't have a family, I have a lot of living expenses that are soley funded from OPs. Basically, if it all goes down the tubes, so does my life.

[redex]

"I no longer have access to any of my customers emails but TSS...."

All you have to do is request your emails from Theo and he emails them to you.


All that list is good for is spamming your customers. Email addresses is all that is provided. No last order date, no med ordered, so you really cannot use it politely and properly for followup orders, only general spam hoping you picked the right time frame and med to promote a refill and not offend a valued customer.

[RxSponsor.com]

QUOTE From Chicago


"While I don't have a family, I have a lot of living expenses that are soley funded from OPs. Basically, if it all goes down the tubes, so does my life."


Chicago, we all stand to lose great income from OP but there are other ways to make goodmoney online.


Stick around here and watch the new opportunities appear...Edited by: RxSponsor.com

[redex]

I have a family, I have a lot of living expenses that are soley funded from OPs. Basically, if it all goes down the tubes, so does my life.


Dependency on one source of income spells disaster. Start promoting other merchandise or services. BTW the online prescription will never completely die. It is the wave of the future. The DEA is implementing regulations for the electronic transfer of prescription information for the heavy duty narcotices, etc. It is the wave of the future.


You will always be able to buy viagra and acyclovir on the internet. that is where it all started. A doctor shouldn't have to see some old fart try to wack off to measure how long he can sustain an erection, orexamine some festered vulva to prescribe acyclovir.After all it started with Viagra and KwikMed not too many years ago.

[rxmary]

It would be a sad day indeed if it all ended and I didn't have my OP sites making money.


With that said, I created my business in the OP industry from $0 and am now making more per month than some people make per year. I can do it again. I may need to work 2x as hard or sell 10X as much, but I believe I can start over with something else and be just as successful.


edited for spelling errorsEdited by: rxmary

[chicago]

yes, I think we still have awhile luckily.


I do have some things I am working on for next year that are non-op related though. They are sick money makers if everything is done right. You can count on me posting about it within the next few months.

[iggy]

"company accused of sending prescription drugs to online customers who hadn't seen doctors."

Am I missing something here? Isn't that what all online pharmacies do?

Had a feeling this was too good to last...

[chicago]

Viagra orders are the best! no damn refill issues!

[rxmary]

When you think how competitive OP area is, if you are earning good money with it, then you shouldn't have much problem marketing any other product online.


I have just found some products in the beauty and health industry that I want to market. I have bought some domain names and am in process of having a new sites built. Found a great manufacturer to sell to me on private label. Now I just have to get all the legal stuff finished up and I'm almost set to go.


Basically I'll get the product prepackaged, slap a label with my name/logo onto it, mark it up 200% and sell it online. Now if everything goes as planned, within a year I should see some great profits.


I also recently found a manufacturer selling HGH and some other products like fat blockers and stuff on private label, but wasn't sure how sales for those things are going lately. If anyone sells HGH and other non prescription products PM me and let me know.

[redex]

As long as the government is in charge, the internet pharnmacy is here to stay. An interesting read from a news article I ran across this weekend:


The Internet Factor


Since 1999, online pharmacies - legitimate and otherwise - have mushroomed, giving kids and addicts alike what appears to be easy access to the drug of their choice.


"Certainly the Internet has facilitated the average person obtaining controlled substances when they would not have done so," says Elizabeth Willis, chief of drug operations in the Drug Enforcement Administration's Office of Diversion Control. "Most people wouldn't go into their doctor and falsify medical complaints to their doctors, but over the Internet, they don't realize it's illegal, and they can do it anonymously."


Government investigators can only estimate how many online pharmacies exist, in part because the illegitimate ones appear and disappear quickly. The first ones started appearing in abundance in 1999. An investigation done by the General Accounting Office in 2000 found 190 Internet pharmacies operating at the time. Of those, 79 provided drugs without a proper prescription.


It's estimated there are now hundreds of such cyber-pharmacies operating from the United States and overseas. Like almost every kind of commerce on the Internet, they've proven to be very difficult to regulate and, for those operating illegally, to prosecute.


In part, that's because no one agency has direct control. The FDA, which regulates medicines, has sent out letters warning some sites they may be acting illegally. But it doesn't have criminal enforcement capabilities.


The Federal Trade Commission, which regulates fraudulent claims, can investigate what are known as "cyber-script mills" and file civil suits, but again, its hands are tied when it comes to criminal complaints.


Even the DEA is operating with limited resources and capabilities. Of the 4,000 drug agents operating in the field, less than 10 percent are dedicated to tracking the misuse of prescription drugs, which in the agency is called drug diversion. Most of their efforts are dedicated to tracking down what are called the bricks and mortar - the doctors and pharmacists who appear to be over-prescribing or handing out controlled substances at will.


Clear Lines of Authority Missing


The Internet investigations are intermixed with those cases, and don't have a single unit or investigator dedicated to them. What's more complicated is that these diversion agents have no arrest authority: They have to call on other departments within the DEA.


In 2002, the inspector general of the Justice Department criticized the DEA for not dedicating enough resources to drug diversion. That concern is echoed by experts in the field.


"Very little is being done on the Internet situation," says Michael Montagne, a professor of social pharmacy at the Massachusetts College of Pharmacy and Health Science. "The DEA tries to monitor it, but they're just capturing a fraction of what's coming in over the board."


The DEA currently has several cases pending against cyber-pharmacies, but can't talk about them. It's also been involved in several successful prosecutions, including one known as the Pill Box Pharmacy case. That was a pharmacy in San Antonio, Texas, that opened a Web site and began prescribing controlled substances after a two- to three-minute telephone interview with a doctor.


In the 18 months it operated, it sold 9.3 million doses of the generic versions of Valium and the pain reliever Vicodin.

[daverx]

What no one has brought up so far are sites that require medical records and a phone consult from doctors. There are fortunes to be made doing that.


Take http://www.youronlinedoctor.com (http://www.youronlinedoctor.com) for instance. You download their forms which includes health/payment/shipping/personal information, add sufficient medical records (1 or 2 pages that show the diagnosis of your condition), then fax that over to them. They schedule you for a phone consultation with a real doctor who spends time with you, my consult was about 6 or 7 minutes. They will of course not prescribe stronger than CIII, but you can get 120 hydrocodone 10/325's with 3 refills. The consult costs $120 I believe, I'm not sure how much of that the doctor gets, but then they price-split with the pharmacy (an independent pharmacy who does this for other companies) and get money on the refills.


It is not like TropicalRX or Buymeds (or now MWS)where you just fill out a questionnaire. I'm not sure anyone really knows what the exact legalities are in this industry, but I'm sure YOD is a lot closer to the guidelines and under less DEA scrutiny. Besides, having a phone consultation with a doctor who maintains medical records on you makes it much easier to say that you are a legit biz treating chronic pain patients. And because they offer hydrocodone, codeine, xanax, valium, etc., there is a high demand for their services and they make a lot of money.


And no, I don't own YOD nor do they even have an affiliate program (although similar sites do, http://www.aaamedsworldwide.com for example has one, although it's kinda mediocre), I'm just a happy customer.


I understand there is a lot more involvement than just setting up affiliate sites, but all you really need is a willing doctor, and that's not hard to find as a lot of these sites share doctors. You don't need an exclusive pharmacy, all you need is a website with some CS reps who schedule the consults and troubleshoot. The pharmacy handles all the medication billing, sending tracking numbers, keeps track of refills, etc. The industry is not oversaturated either, there is room for more. There is a lot of money to be made and you are in much better legal shape if you do it this way.


-daverx

[MedMan]

Ok, am I missing something or am I being censured? smileys/smiley5.gif


Admin, what's going on. Why have all of my posts been deleted? Did I say something to offend you, was I out of line? It took me a long time to write that post, and now it is gone. smileys/smiley7.gif

[manager]

I deleted all the post referring to Marketing Master because they didn't involve the topic of the DEA and OP's.... If there was something in your post relating to that subject I'm sorry I deleted it but I wanted to clean up the trash around it because this is one of the most important topics yet.

[icollect]

We all agree we got a problem. It seems there are two schools of thought.


1. Foldup the tents and start selling snake oil.


2.Get a day job sellingcorn nuts.


I think there's a larger issue here. Is what we are doing a good thing? Is it worth saving.


ONLY ONE ANSWER! H E L L YES


You can't even imagine, but I've lived thru it first hand. My brother was on hospice and dying. He wasn't even allowed to see a doctor and was severly under medicated. Not enough sedation and not even close on pain. The pain got so bad he chose to die. He had a brain tumor, but died from starvation and thirst. Believe me when I tell you I begged for them to help him and they didn't.


If I would have known about prescriptions online my brother would not have spent the last three weeks of his life screaming.


There's even more to it than that. A small minority of people in this country have taken it upon themselves to take away basic rights such as my choice for a doctor. They also want to take away my right to choose what chemicals I use once they are prescribed to me. I don't want a law enforcement official with a 2 year degree deciding whats right for me when it comes to medical treatment.


There is no law to regulate our industry currently, that's why we as an industry to acquire spokes people for our cause. Right now people from the DEA are misrepresenting the facts and the law. Their trying to portray us as people that prey on kids. We can't let it happen without putting up a fight. What we do is just too damn important!


People don't want the government interfering, Congress doesn't want the Government interfering. So lets make it easy on them. Lets tell them what they already know is right. Get the hell out of health care.

[icollect]

One other factoid, More people are choosing to starve themselves to death once placed on hospice than any other time in history. Source CNN

[DEWIE42]

smileys/smiley32.gifThat was so well worded and correct on all accounts.......icollect.....and I am so very sorry for your losssmileys/smiley19.gifAny input that we as affiliates could do by anyone else here at the Forum?smileys/smiley1.gif

[icollect]

Another factoid, the most heavily abused drug is prescribed at doctors offices everyday not on the internet. Oxycotin, otherwise known as hillbilly herion.Drugs like valium xanax hydrocodone soma have little or no street value. The DEA needs to refocus on problem areas.

[MedMan]

Damn Admin, I apologized to MarketingMaster in that post!


I also wrote a long winded but very good (if I do say so myself)post about how we need to stick up for ourselves before it is too late. Now it's gone. smileys/smiley19.gif


Well, at least icollect is doing a great job of rallying our troops. I agree with you 110%, we need to tell the gov't that we are not going to take this sitting down!

[manager]

Sorry Medman I didn't read the whole post. I'll do so next time. smileys/smiley3.gif

[DEWIE42]

Medman could you ellaborate on icollect for me......thanxsmileys/smiley4.gif

[icollect]

I think we need to evaluate our buisness models. There are some really great ops in this forum. I will work with anyone in a constructive way to improve the way we do buisness. Some suggestions.


1. Seperate ourselves from the scammers. There is a shady side to our business that has nothing to do with pharmacuticals, these people would be slime no mater what they were doing.


2. Set in place universal internet pharmacy standards to govern our business practices. When someone goes astray we'll take appropiate action such as;


a. Immediately establish a comittee of ops doctor pharmacist and webmasters to set up a plan of action and report back to the general population of ops, doctors, pharmacist and webmasters it's findings.


b. Insure that no organization gain an unfair advantage in the establishment of regulations, but once established those that comply with the regulations could compete with equal footing. Those that don't could peomptly be booted in the ass off the web, and into the waiting hands of authorities.


c. Obtain council to insure that our actions are within the law.


d. Most importantly began to communicate our mission and our proposed changes. It's important that we seize the momentum.


e. Set up a central website to report any shady acrivities and any pharmacy not meeting agreed upon standards. These standards would have to establish adequate medical care for the patient, to protect ops doctors and webmasters.


f. Establish a governing body that would self regulate our industry and report any activity outside established standards.


g. Establish a lobbying group to publicize the changes in our industry so that law enforcement and government agencies are not our official spokes people.


Just some thoughts that might help, some of you bright young people take the ball and run with it

[redex]

drugbuyers.com pretty much does all that without the legal and political requirements you outline. Last thing we need is more government.smileys/smiley4.gif

[icollect]

Unfortunatly thats where the DEA and double dipping drug addicts hang out. There are 4000 post a day about how lax ops are. Are you really serious you think a chat board is going to get the government off our asses.


It is going to take standards and procedures that are iron clad, so if a mistake is made, it's just that a mistake. You cannot reform an industry without conforming to the minimum requirement of the law, and if you haven't noticed we're selling medication not beanie babies.


This industry is either going to self regulate or every day they'll be baiting the ops into screwing up.


I've had one customer submit a phentermine order twice today and he's been turned down twice, because his BMI was too low. This is called a standard. These are the things that have to be repeatable.


If I walk into a brick and mortar pharmact and lie about who I am or alter a script, they do not arrest the pharmacist, they will throw my ass in jail for a year. We have to get the burden of the law off of us and on the customer.


For example instead of a powder puff I promise I'm tellin the truth, You change the wording to read, under punishment of purjury and other high crimes I swear the information above to be accurate and truthful.


Now if we were to implement such a procedure we could put that in writing and give copies to the authorities to show we are cooperating.


If you do not show the DEA that you are making changes to your business Pharmacies will become afraid to do business with you, because going to jail is not easy when your middle aged or over.


In summation, this will become an industry that webmasters will have to require deposits in order to do drug sites, because you will not know when they are going to get shut down. Ops will stay in business until they feel the heat. The industry is not stable now, what happens if they take down some of the big suppliers. How long will it last, not long?


If everybody dances to the same regulations(guide lines) we will be in buisness forever. We have to be twice as clean as the real world.


Politics are a reality, why do you think the DEA was involved in the enforcement of state law. Nobody was arrested it was a photo op, so the DEA Could convey how corrupt our industry is. You have to change the perception thatwe're the bad guys, cause Wallmart is waiting in the wings to take over and fill the void. You think they're going to have an affiliate program, nothey're going to report you if you try to sell asprin.


I do know one thing about what's going on, there is big money behind it, and they just sucessfully, with onebrushstroke turned us into drug dealers, not online pharmacies. Time to get serious, the world has changed, the game is now hardball, and if your not willing to play,you better get out now.

[icollect]

Sorry Redex, been up all night with server problems and I'm a grouchy old person to boot. I'm mostly a lurker and have been very impressed with the amount of support you provide this board.smileys/smiley1.gif